tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post2418422337291896328..comments2024-02-19T05:18:27.849-05:00Comments on <center>the Q at Parkside</center>: Thank You LeffertsClarkson FlatBedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-25371264056176925952014-04-11T13:59:21.315-04:002014-04-11T13:59:21.315-04:00You know Parkside Guy, I've spoken here befor...You know Parkside Guy, I've spoken here before of the Sesame Street generation, and I think you're right about that.<br /><br />And of course the economy and jobs are super important. If I thought construction of luxury housing was the longterm way to make middle class jobs come to the City, I'd be likely to agree with you.<br /><br />E/Z's out because of his constant complaining, wrapped in a suggestion he mad awhile ago that I took down about race that made it clear where he was coming from. If you find that stuff funny I'm sure there's places to find it.<br /><br />We're not going to solve the jobs problem here, and that's why I'm not that interested in posting on it. You're welcome to, if you like. You seem to want it, so offer it up please.<br /><br />My whole point is that we can work towards a more livable neighborhood without having to resort to widespread economic change. Though it's a moot point given the current climate. It's here, it's coming, blah blah blah.<br /><br />If you want to see your neighbors thrown out on their asses, then so be it. But you're not being very empathetic to their plight. <br /><br />And you must be high to think I'm wishing for an economic downturn. I'm just predicting the inevitable.Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-2536730726218647702014-04-11T13:22:42.713-04:002014-04-11T13:22:42.713-04:00It's too bad the EZ comments were removed. The...It's too bad the EZ comments were removed. They were kind of hilarious, and in keeping with a lot of the negative things people actually experience in this neighborhood. I found it funny to finally laugh a bit at all the times i've sprayed human feces off my home. I tend to think uncritical online comment threads keep us from any real dialogue. People just seek out whatever information reinforces their worldview and don't want to be challenged by differing opinions. Just because it's presented obnoxiously doesn't mean it isn't true.<br /><br />Whether anyone likes it or not, this neighborhood will be radically different in 10 years, just like other areas were revolutionized in the 15 years previous to that. Change has been the history of NYC. It just shows how desperately misguided the "progressive" movement has become.<br /><br />Increased housing demand? = block construction, make it a race issue instead of an economic one, hope crime goes up, hope depressions/terrorist attacks happen, hope rents go back down, hope people just "go home" so you can go back to your Pollyanna version of how this area actually is/was? I'm sorry, that just sounds stupid to me. And of course the usual: no discussion of jobs, the dismal economy, personal responsibility, over-reliance on government dependence, etc etc.<br /><br />I'm sure you mean well, but the next economic downturn will probably decimate the very people you desire to protect. Are you sure you really want to hope for that?? The last downturn actually ended up disproportionally benefiting the rich, who responded by buying physical assets, townhouses and income-producing properties in droves. It is also when poor college-students (or whoever) began to consider PLG en masse. Before the recession hit and they lost their jobs, they probably could have just stayed in their trendy East Williamsburg apartments.<br /><br />Also, this entire "Millennial" generation was raised on Sesame Street and visions of urban living. They are not going to stop wanting to live in cities, period. They know the soullessness of suburbs and have no desire to go back.Parkside_Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17809972696728811798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-64428213154494865072014-04-10T20:34:23.762-04:002014-04-10T20:34:23.762-04:00re: "Meanwhile, de Blasio has outlined a new ...<i>re: "Meanwhile, de Blasio has outlined a new program guaranteed to increase the population of illegal aliens"</i><br /><br /><b>no_slappz</b>: Your own words seem to contract the above statement: "NY City is the first stop in this country for a lot of people." The possibility of issuing municipal ID cards for undocumented immigrants is also not really germane to the discussion of supply/demand for NYC housing. 1. They're here anyway, and they're living somewhere, like it or not. 2. They're probably not included the target audience for the new housing being built in the city. (Could many of them even afford it?)<br /><br />I don't even know why anyone would even float the idea of increasing crime to drive away more prospective residents from moving into PLG. That's really an asinine idea not even worth discussing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-36701408761091064432014-04-10T20:02:25.297-04:002014-04-10T20:02:25.297-04:00Clarkson has a minor point when he ponders the eff...Clarkson has a minor point when he ponders the effects of more housing in NY City. There is something in economics called Say's Law, which asserts that Supply Creates Demand.<br /><br />When it comes to real estate in NY City, Say's Law holds true.<br /><br />Why wouldn't it? NY City is the first stop in this country for a lot of people. It's the first stop for a lot of people after college. It's an important career stop for loads of people. Moreover, the population is growing the regular way -- baby booming.<br /><br />Meanwhile, de Blasio has outlined a new program guaranteed to increase the population of illegal aliens: He proposes that every illegal alien (and every legal citizen) should enjoy the benefits of an Municipal ID card that will assist the possessor when it comes to obtaining all government services, support, assistance, benefits, freebies, and whatever else there is. <br /><br />Talk about a population magnet! Wow. That'll do it. <br /><br />As for strategies to minimize the human onslaught, well, the theory of increasing crime wouldn't do the trick. Every New Yorker with a bit of sense knows that a little crime keeps the door to a good deal open a little longer. Therefore, like a stock of a good company that seems to be trading a little cheap because something went south last quarter, people know when a place is fundamentally sound.<br /><br />So it is with PLG.<br /><br />As for how long people stay in NY City, well, half of my family (paternal) has been here over 160 years. The other half (maternal) was here for about 20 years. no_slappzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207475509053402475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-72424736240056360332014-04-10T16:58:19.345-04:002014-04-10T16:58:19.345-04:00Not sure if and when I said NYC was hype. NYC has ...Not sure if and when I said NYC was hype. NYC has always been hype, probably always will be.<br /><br />The hype I'm referring to is right here - Central Brooklyn, more precisely Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy, Flatbush. The Williamsburg/Bushwick is a juggernaut unto itself. Hype. It's a zeitgeist thing. Austin. Seattle. Portland. SF. <br /><br />The difference is that Brooklyn is but one "suburb" of Manhattan, where the ultimate hype is produced. As the years go by, I care less and less what happens real estate-wise there. Who can keep track? Maplewood. Orange. Montclair. Whatever. That's why I stick to what I know.<br /><br />When the next bust hits, and trust me there will be a bust, we'll wonder what the hell we were thinking. And if we hit a true Depression, or a serious environmental or terrorist calamity, and the wealthy seek safer climes, these buildings will become tomorrow's slums. <br /><br />So when politicians tell me they're planning for the future? I say, we've seen it all before. Greed, with its attendant white collar crime, may do us in yet. But low, sell high! Repeat!Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-20872087904570382812014-04-10T16:42:10.244-04:002014-04-10T16:42:10.244-04:00Lef1: well said throughout. Thanks.Lef1: well said throughout. Thanks.diakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01160226342863738763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-30983661315739152772014-04-10T16:32:01.817-04:002014-04-10T16:32:01.817-04:00Ladies and Gentlemen, let me be the first to congr...Ladies and Gentlemen, let me be the first to congratulate commenter EZ on his excellent decision to move out of the neighborhood. As the great English poet Morrissey once said, "Viva Hate!"Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-77020467526424659622014-04-10T16:24:36.533-04:002014-04-10T16:24:36.533-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Eric Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15396831692703301149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-35416236634641564622014-04-10T13:55:43.097-04:002014-04-10T13:55:43.097-04:00Hey Q, I know everyone has freedom of speech as pe...Hey Q, I know everyone has freedom of speech as per the first amendment of this country, but do we constantly have to be subjected to the racist and hateful comments, by folks like EZ? He is no longer living in PLG, yet he is so fixated on it. It seems as though he is stalking the neighborhood!<br /><br />It is so aggravating for those of us who are working tirelessly to see this community progress positively, be constantly subjected to the ire of these malicious people, whose only intent is to focus on everything negative. "EZ, if you must contribute to the blog, why don't you just tell us about the positive attributes of your current community and how we can implement those attributes here in PLG and improve the community".cheryl on parkside avehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11013269904736517359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-24502362721533415412014-04-10T13:46:12.139-04:002014-04-10T13:46:12.139-04:00Yeah, meant to say Rogers Ave not Bedford.Yeah, meant to say Rogers Ave not Bedford.Lef1https://www.blogger.com/profile/14946325433473401363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-76813508724543827752014-04-10T13:26:06.978-04:002014-04-10T13:26:06.978-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.cheryl on parkside avehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11013269904736517359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-87836190078072517282014-04-10T10:48:31.174-04:002014-04-10T10:48:31.174-04:00re: " (e.g. I think the added density will do...re: " (e.g. I think the added density will do a lot to liven up Flatbush Ave (and maybe even Bedford)"<br /><br />Does Bedford Avenue really need to be livened up? The stretch between Empire and Parkside is almost completely residential (and it would be nice if it remained that way). Did you mean to include Rogers Avenue?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-49682204428532936472014-04-10T01:09:03.611-04:002014-04-10T01:09:03.611-04:00I guess it sounds like you think the "hype&qu...I guess it sounds like you think the "hype" argument applies to NYC itself as well as Lefferts. Personally, I don't see it. Still, I agree that it's hard to tell if this trend of more people moving to NYC will continue and what may come next. And it certainly makes sense to build our communities in ways that we think will foster a good community. Also, if I haven't emphasized it enough - I think overall city policy and Lefferts-specific policy are somewhat separate questions and you don't have to think the same thing about both of them as a Lefferts resident. And, even for city-wide policy, there are certainly better ways of doing things (although putting too much on the wish list is dangerous because it can ultimately drive the cost of housing up if developers all start planning lawsuits and delay into their budgets). But I think it's definitely a valid argument to say you don't want luxury towers somewhere because it will kill the character of the neighborhood. And, there are ways to foster development that will do more to keep things affordable (e.g. non-luxury buildings). <br /><br />Personally I'm ambivalent about the specific effects these buildings will have on Lefferts (e.g. I think the added density will do a lot to liven up Flatbush Ave (and maybe even Bedford), supporting new bars, restaurants, other new shops and businesses, etc., and a lot of college students walking around would at least ensure bustling streets at all times of night, which can be a good thing). So, I don't think they're all bad. But, I completely agree that a proactive approach by residents to guide the neighborhood to a better kind of development makes sense. Where I disagree with you is that I think that if too many neighborhoods all go with the "smaller is better" mantra, I think we're likely to end up with even higher prices.Lef1https://www.blogger.com/profile/14946325433473401363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-6426832097357585942014-04-10T01:08:42.462-04:002014-04-10T01:08:42.462-04:00Hey,
Thanks for the responses Clarkson and others...Hey,<br /><br />Thanks for the responses Clarkson and others. I think what I had to say about NYC is getting confused a bit with what I think about Lefferts specifically. I agree with you that these buildings are likely to make prices in Lefferts rise. They'll bring with them all the bougie stuff that residents in luxury buildings like to have, and that's going to drive prices up in Lefferts. You're right that if we don't get these buildings in Lefferts, maybe a lot of the gentrifiers will go somewhere else instead. So, I agree with you on the micro level. And, I think that people can have a legitimate gripe with these kinds of buildings for that reason. <br /><br />But, what I was really responding to was your statements about the overall city in the article as they related to NYC's overall housing policy. I do think that overall having more housing in the city is going to make city-wide prices drop. And restricting housing supply will make prices rise. Just look at San Francisco -- they have a lot of rent control, but the restrictions on new construction have driven prices through the roof. Places like Houston on the other hand that let developers run wild are ugly as shit, but at least prices are low. Overall, if NYC lets more construction happen, then there will be more housing available and prices will go down (or, more likely, they'll still go up, but not as much as they otherwise would have). While maybe people choose a neighborhood based on the kinds of amenities and stuff they're getting, they don't choose a city for those reasons. People come to NYC for a huge number of reasons - the jobs, the excitement, the diversity, the art (and on and on). I don't think that blocking all of these new buildings borough-wide is a viable strategy at all. The new people will likely keep coming whether new luxury units are built or not (or at least, I think the number of new luxury building is unlikely to greatly affect new migration. Rents will keep going up without new buildings - even more so actually! People are coming to Bed Stuy, Crown Heights, Lefferts, etc. for the great housing stock (and because there's nowhere else to go since prices everywhere else are just crazy!) <br /><br />Lef1https://www.blogger.com/profile/14946325433473401363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-54715799442917221702014-04-09T13:35:53.950-04:002014-04-09T13:35:53.950-04:00David: Here's why I disagree. People started m...David: Here's why I disagree. People started moving to Lefferts en masse during a period of heavy shooting and rising felonies over the last couple years. Prices, David. That's what's bringing people here. Prices are rising, and as a joking neighbor put it on their fake magazine "Modern Gentrifier," we were too black til we weren't. Even the most recent developments happened here before any serious drop in crime.<br /><br />You're not thinking creatively. I'm not saying that we need to find a way to make it less appealing SERIOUSLY. C'mon guys, that's a joke. It's meant to suggest that we haven't figured out any strong solutions.<br /><br />I'm not looking to permanently house the very, very small percentage of our neighbors who are pathologically violent. Don't be absurd. I've spent much of the last three years interfacing with the 71st, and 70th, and the D.A., to try to get them to be more, not less proactive.<br /><br />I'm seeking solutions for the VAST majority of neighbors who are loving, non-racist, decent and hard-working human beings. So much of what I read on my own blog is people who want to paint everyone with a single brush - more poor people equals more crime. Well guess what? Wealthy people commit crimes too. They sell drugs. They steal. They drink and drive. They beat their wives and girlfriends. What they don't do is get caught or targeted nearly as often. <br /><br />If you're interested in correlating crime to race, you should dig deeper into the war on black men that has led to unprecedented levels of incarceration, and the lingering effects of decades of unemployment and lost jobs for black men, leading to the destruction of the family and sense of hopelessness. Read "The New Jim Crow." This is a deep, deep issue. Even the Vietnam War, and heroin then crack, have played a huge part. This is a much deeper discussion than I'm prepared to have in regards to a stupid building.<br /><br />I do paint with a less nuanced brush about wealthy people because, hey, I'd like to think we would collectively make decisions that aren't based around their well-being. In my experience, they do pretty well taking care of themselves.<br /><br />I don't begrudge white people. Hell, most of my good friends are white and I wouldn't discourage them from moving here. You're missing the point...we have NO real leadership on the issue of keeping people in their homes. And no one is even whispering about harsher enforcement on existing civil rights laws. No one. At least throw enforcement a few bucks and PRETEND you care.<br /><br />Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-1055155907295543002014-04-09T13:35:41.076-04:002014-04-09T13:35:41.076-04:00re:"If and when the crime will go down, the w...re:"If and when the crime will go down, the whites will invade. Same thing happened in bed-stuy."<br /><br />Where are your stats that crime has gone down in Bed-Stuy? People still believe that it's a problem and they seem to be correct: Crime in Bed-Stuy: The Pink Elephant in the Room: http://bed-stuy.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/crime-in-bed-stuy-the-pink-elephant-in-the-room<br /><br />The point is that Bed-Stuy is gentrifying whether or not crime has gone down. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-56070153101272408272014-04-09T13:14:05.829-04:002014-04-09T13:14:05.829-04:00Nope. Never said it. You inferred it. Your defensi...Nope. Never said it. You inferred it. Your defensiveness got the best of you.Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-62429090319484087322014-04-09T13:04:50.513-04:002014-04-09T13:04:50.513-04:00Case in point, maybe if we can get CRIME up you ca...Case in point, maybe if we can get CRIME up you can keep the area from filling up with people who care about where they live! (I guess that means white people according to you)Parkside_Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17809972696728811798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-89907657085417202402014-04-09T13:00:39.196-04:002014-04-09T13:00:39.196-04:00Unfortunately, I think the only thing that can sto...Unfortunately, I think the only thing that can stop rents from rising is CRIME.<br />When crime goes down, the white invasion begins. I believe the only thing that protects pockets like East New York from the rising rents is the level of crime in the neighborhood. If and when the crime will go down, the whites will invade. Same thing happened in bed-stuy. So what actually protects the poor living in those neighborhoods from been kicked out due to rising rents is CRIME.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02489080941866488122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-84278733763200582422014-04-09T13:00:31.044-04:002014-04-09T13:00:31.044-04:00Q, i'm just taking the argument of yourself an...Q, i'm just taking the argument of yourself and many of your commenters "if only we can make it LESS APPEALING" to it's logical conclusion.Parkside_Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17809972696728811798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-47022051888024998012014-04-09T13:00:14.414-04:002014-04-09T13:00:14.414-04:00re:"Change a few words in that statement and ...re:"Change a few words in that statement and it sounds just like what people in Westchester or the Hamptons say about rental housing. I don't see the difference."<br /><br />Except for that those NIMBYs are more likely to be successful at blocking stuff they don't want. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-39987068820464684902014-04-09T12:54:19.716-04:002014-04-09T12:54:19.716-04:00Right Ektorp. Keep believing that building for the...Right Ektorp. Keep believing that building for the wealthy and building for poor with government money are the same thing if you like. And that white racism against blacks and black racism against whites equals out in the end.<br /><br />You're either the sort of person who believes in activist remedies or not. I'm not the least bit concerned that the private sector will figure out how to house people with means. The lower middle classes on down, however...that's another story.Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-38427441398690341582014-04-09T12:49:42.885-04:002014-04-09T12:49:42.885-04:00"Let's be honest though. For most of thos...<i>"Let's be honest though. For most of those folks, these studios and one-bedrooms are just a temporary home. The building is not being built for families, the typical longtime residents of a neighborhood, who tend to contribute the most to its quality of life. Sorry young singles... .... i don't see the longterm benefit of building more and more of this type of housing."</i><br /><br />How is that different than the excuses that people in other places give for not wanting low income housing in their communities? Change a few words in that statement and it sounds just like what people in Westchester or the Hamptons say about rental housing. I don't see the difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-80906323562324402032014-04-09T11:53:05.081-04:002014-04-09T11:53:05.081-04:00Ektorp: Thanks for noting the actual income requir...Ektorp: Thanks for noting the actual income requirements to move into 626 today. Very helpful.<br /><br />Let's be honest though. For most of those folks, these studios and one-bedrooms are just a temporary home. The building is not being built for families, the typical longtime residents of a neighborhood, who tend to contribute the most to its quality of life. Sorry young singles...I don't see you at the meetings nearly as much. I get it...I was oblivious and unconcerned at that age myself. What will happen at 626 is the rents will continue to rise with each subsequent renter as the neighborhood becomes more and more popular to this population. It's a short term solution, but i don't see the longterm benefit of building more and more of this type of housing.<br /><br />Still, myself included, NO ONE suggested not building at the site. Many of us were outraged by the audacity of the size and the ignoring of the community. That set off a whole other laundry list of concerns about the neighborhood. Only someone tone deaf would think it's about stopping this building entirely. Hell, it's not even about Hudson per se. Any of a number of developers might have done the same thing. And a lot would have recognized there's a right and a wrong way to change the complexion (pun intended) of a neighborhood.Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-88017556398389834342014-04-09T11:39:17.957-04:002014-04-09T11:39:17.957-04:00Re: "Does that have it's own problems, of...Re: "Does that have it's own problems, of course but if the government was able to subsidize the surban lifestyle for so long,making cities shells in the process during the 60's and 70's interesting to think about if they could do it the other way. "<br /><br />Preach!<br /><br />A new generation of people who in decades past who probably would have moved to the suburbs are moving into the inner city and "discovering" the inner city. I liked it when one of the speakers Monday night mentioned those long-term residents who stayed even after many fled decades ago. It'd be a shame to see them pushed out because now this neighborhood is now the next big thing.<br /><br />Thank you for whoever mentioned Mitchell-Lama. I'd like to think that if 626 Flatbush were a Mitchell-Lama development, people might be less pissed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com