tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post3900147985546152429..comments2024-02-19T05:18:27.849-05:00Comments on <center>the Q at Parkside</center>: Bye Bye Black BrooklynClarkson FlatBedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-1305250031112881282019-05-22T15:30:47.932-04:002019-05-22T15:30:47.932-04:00Lilana Sadomskaya your father Evgeniy Sadomskiy wa...Lilana Sadomskaya your father Evgeniy Sadomskiy wanted to kill his own doughter becareful of him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-22598487373242966442014-03-02T08:58:46.919-05:002014-03-02T08:58:46.919-05:00Keep doing what you're doing, brother. I'...Keep doing what you're doing, brother. I'd join in more frequently, but I'm not that eloquent of a writer.<br /><br />This discussion needs to keep happening. Like any great argument, at some point people will get tired of talking from extreme points of view and work their way to the middle.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08502295913313611169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-65128562007235164452014-03-01T13:24:11.496-05:002014-03-01T13:24:11.496-05:00Just to pop the 'hood for a second, let me tel...Just to pop the 'hood for a second, let me tell you what happens on this side of the line. After 1,000 or so posts, the vast majority have no mention of racial issues at all. On a typical day I'll get 500 page views by the end of that 24-hour period. Also typical will be up to a total of 750 for that post over the course of a month.<br /><br />If, however, I mention the opening of a new gentrifier-friendly business, the numbers pop through the roof. Sometimes as many as 2500 page views over the same time period.<br /><br />Also, if I post an "essay" (I know, I know, it's a bit much to describe it that way) on race, class and/or neighborhood change, I get similar spikes in views. If Brownstoner picks it up in their Blog Wrap, it's usually double whatever the numbers would be otherwise.<br /><br />However, my personal email inbox only really spikes when people get pissed off by the comments, and want to express themselves but don't want to enter the fray online.<br /><br />One frequently echoed comment that I try to bear in mind when I write this stuff: <br /><br />It's easy to be choosy about when you think race IS or ISN'T an issue if you're white. If you're black 24-7-365 in this country, it's likely you will be less cavalier in your assignation of racism or racial bias. <br /><br />Another way of saying that is that I would personally prefer to take a white person's perspective on race with a grain of salt.<br /><br />Readers, I would encourage you to do the same, knowing that I'm a ruddy-faced white boy from Iowa who's lived in the nabe 10 and Brooklyn 25 years, just trying to learn and grow. Though on the latter, the literal fact is that I'm trying to limit my carbs. I'm also trying to rid my diet of trolls, not just rolls.<br /><br />I do NOT consider Diak or PaulG anything but concerned citizens with whom I sometimes disagree. Salut, gentlemen. I'm glad to have Mr. Thompson join the discussion as well. Anyone else? C'mon in, the water's fine! I think the conversation is tipped to the wonder bread end of the loaf and could use a little more pumpernickel. But in the blogosphere, that may be wishful thinking.<br /><br />Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-77942212784449281732014-03-01T12:47:25.409-05:002014-03-01T12:47:25.409-05:00Next March it is, sir. Unless I get wiped out by a...Next March it is, sir. Unless I get wiped out by a flying dollar van, I'll be here!diakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01160226342863738763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-68435641072115644722014-03-01T12:44:33.701-05:002014-03-01T12:44:33.701-05:00"Tidal Wave of Change Indeed" Hold onto ..."Tidal Wave of Change Indeed" Hold onto that thought, Diak. Let's see how applicable it is in 12 months.Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-77827262901284824532014-03-01T12:21:08.053-05:002014-03-01T12:21:08.053-05:00I completely deny that I've suggested racism i...I completely deny that I've suggested racism is not involved at all. I've never said so and I don't believe that's the case. In fact, my story posted above about the Slope RE broker suggests exactly the opposite.<br />As Mr SThompson points out, I'm fully aware that I benefitted materially; there's no way I would have been able to buy a home like the one I have if PLG had been a "better" neighborhood in 1999. (Believe me, we looked all over.) <br />But I also don't see everything through a purely racial prism. There are also generational, economic, and social aspects to the changes happening all over the borough. I can understand if some people look at the changes and conclude that this is just a simple case of black folks getting screwed once again. But I don't agree that it's that simple— or that it's somehow the "natural order."<br /><br />By the way, no one has mentioned the two new businesses that have opened just a few doors north and south of the 626 Flatbush site. Hipster hat store? Cute cupcake boutique? Nope. A hair salon and a nail salon. Tidal wave of change indeed.diakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01160226342863738763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-16009551297673045072014-03-01T09:37:46.722-05:002014-03-01T09:37:46.722-05:00rasEveryone thinks the man is pointing fingers at ...rasEveryone thinks the man is pointing fingers at you. That's not how I read it. He's saying you benefited from racism, there's a moral responsibility that goes with it. I can buy that argument. It's not helpful to think like a victim, but some folks don't feel like they have access to power, and they act accordingly. If you been treated like a criminal and a lowlife and second class citizen, you start to think like one.<br /><br />I'm all for the neighborhood changing. You'd think white people invented the idea of picking up trash and organizing against crime and supporting local businesses. Fine. Take credit if you want. There are plenty of us been preaching the same things for years, but now there's more money in the neighborhood people are taking notice. Cops are starting to get cooperation from citizens. Again all good. But if your pad was cheap because other people didn't want to live around black people, you benefited materially. Now poorer blacks are being asked to leave. You call that natural. I call that racism in action, death by a thousand cuts. Nothing anyone says is probably going to change it. But don't think we don't notice. I'm glad folks are talking.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09691314719260455247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-87092882724085326272014-02-28T21:12:40.608-05:002014-02-28T21:12:40.608-05:00I'm deleting all his comments, and trying to g...I'm deleting all his comments, and trying to get his IP address to become spam. I did some sleuthing and found out more about his ideology and he manages to play out the same role all over the internet. He's made quite a few comments here that went near the line, and a couple over. I'd ban him outright if blogger didn't make it so difficult.<br /><br />The gist, however, lest you think I'm not being transparent, of that last bit of vitriol from our dear NS was in fact that I'm King Gentrifier for getting involved in the neighborhood the way I do. His analysis probably has validity, but I actually don't care what a full-bore racist like No_Slappz has to say.<br /><br />You and Diak seem to want to suggest that racism is not involved at all, and that we're seeing a natural reordering of the City landscape. I'm content to leave it at that - a difference of opinion. I know for a fact that plenty of people get pretty pissed at the dismissive tone in so many comments here and elsewhere. I'm committed to a free exchange of ideas, and frankly I wish more voices would join in that don't feel personally attacked by the idea that the Gutting of Black Brooklyn is a fact worthy of note. <br /><br />Did you two do it? Of course not. Do we all play a role in who gets snubbed in this culture? Yes. As long as you can bring that knowledge with you wherever you go, you might just end up being part of solutions rather than simply moving the railroad tracks further and further East.<br /><br />I really don't care who thinks I'm buying into a fantasy. Dreamers are dreamers. In the meantime, all are welcome at my table.<br /><br />Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-78686517744506536982014-02-28T20:55:14.396-05:002014-02-28T20:55:14.396-05:00Yeesh, sorry if I crossed a line. Perhaps I should...Yeesh, sorry if I crossed a line. Perhaps I should better establish my bonafides and decency before speaking? <br /><br />What I am (perhaps inelegantly) trying to get at was that you frame the "gutting of black Brooklyn" as a moral violation that can be laid at the feet of rapacious developers and landlords. (For if not them then it is you and I who are the guilty parties.)<br /><br />But this change would likely be happening at only a slightly slower speed if you removed all new development and rapacious landlords from the picture. Even if it were only kind considerate souls like you, Brent, and I (yes, I am nice dammit) moving here it would still be a slow steady wave displacing current residents and changing central Brooklyn. NYC is growing in population, which puts pressure on every single neighborhood from Woodlawn to Rockaway. <br /><br />I don't think stopping development is the answer. Raise the minimum wage. Dramatically. Increase property taxes on single family homes in NYC (they're laughably low). Tax the ultra-rich. But for god's sake, an increasing population needs an increased housing stock. Our new fearless leader calls for 200,000 new units - where do YOU propose they go? <br /><br />Lastly, what did our favorite crank No Slappz do in that last comment to deserve it being deleted? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-74949840090894317542014-02-28T20:20:18.304-05:002014-02-28T20:20:18.304-05:00I speak only for myself. I suspect there are many ...I speak only for myself. I suspect there are many things at play in many people's minds. I've said plenty. If it ain't clear, then that's just a problem of my writing, because it's pretty damn clear in my mind what bugs me.<br /><br />For me, the similarity in those two is the hubris, and the bigger social context is simply the backdrop. You can remain cynical if you like. In fact, I hope you bring your opinions to the Town Hall and sharing them in public. Eric asked us to make sure the meeting was full representative, so that he can know he heard all sides before taking a position with the Mayor.<br /><br />Did I say they don't belong here? Diak they're already here, and man of them are my friends (at least as long as my tirades don't piss them off too much). They're coming whether the tower gets built or not. It's not a question of whether anyone can come. Far from it...it's a question of who gets pushed out and by what means. You should know, because I see it in your intelligent prose, that not all issues boil down to a simple A or B answer.Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-27250521990152515382014-02-28T17:39:03.832-05:002014-02-28T17:39:03.832-05:00I'd like some clarification. On one hand, we&#...I'd like some clarification. On one hand, we're hearing that the overwhelming objection to 626 is a question over the height of the building. The whole contextual zoning issue, yes? That was certainly the tone of lead story in the Echo.<br />But Mr CF, reading your comments, it would seem the height issue is really a pretext for excluding people who you feel don't "belong" here. <br />How is chopping 3 or 7 or 17 stories off the building going to satisfy you if your real objection is not to the architecture but to the building's occupants.<br />And it would also be helpful if someone who speaks for PPEN could clarify whether the height issue is truly the point or just a smokescreen for class-based exclusion.<br />Or have adherents of both objections joined forces? diakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01160226342863738763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-81928864051040210192014-02-28T13:03:34.203-05:002014-02-28T13:03:34.203-05:00And to be clear about one more thing...23-story lu...And to be clear about one more thing...23-story luxury tower along the park, marketed specifically to the class of folks not currently the overwhelming majority of kinds of people living here? Asshole move, even if you throw the community a bone. They took public money. They need to own up to their responsibility.<br />Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-35020549388732488842014-02-28T12:59:13.373-05:002014-02-28T12:59:13.373-05:00Stop it Paul. Just stop it. I made it perfectly cl...Stop it Paul. Just stop it. I made it perfectly clear what I think is acceptable or not acceptable. You're not reading, or comprehending, or even wanting to comprehend. Your defensiveness is not called for in my opinion. My response to my friend Brent, whom I respect and whose bondafides as a decent guy I'm not trying to call into question, was exactly the answer to YOUR question. I'm not going to repeat myself.<br /><br />If you want to have an argument over which races are okay and which are not, have it yourself. I'm talking about acknowledgment of the past, and responsibility to the present and future.<br /><br />And if you think I'm trying to distance myself from the situation, you're not reading me at all. I claim my responsibility as part of the recent avant-garde, no matter how many years ago I bought my house. But there is a difference between being respectful to the neighborhood and bullying your way to complete takeover.<br /><br />Read my lips: it's perfectly fine to move here if you are white. Just don't be an asshole.<br /><br />Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-35628023768388288792014-02-28T10:56:59.741-05:002014-02-28T10:56:59.741-05:00So Q let's answer that question - what is and ...So Q let's answer that question - what is and is not ok in the land grab? <br /><br />Is it ok for a white family to buy the home of a black family (even if all parties are happy in the deal)? Because that IS a form of displacement, in that a white family has taken the place (or displaced) a black family. <br /><br />Is it ok for an owner of a house outside the manor to charge whatever they want for a unit within their home? If yes, then they are abetting the market's inherently racist tendencies.<br /><br />Is it ok to develop a fallow site and put in a new building? Maybe as long as the word "luxury" never appears in the marketing materials?<br /><br />Is it ok to enjoy Kola and Chad's tasty beverages at Tugboat, or should I be wracked with guilt every time I go there instead of the little bodega next door?<br /><br />I don't mean to tie everyone's liberal consciences in knots (lord knows mine is). I don't know the answers to the above.<br /><br />But I do know it's silly to think that one is an "acceptable" gentrifier just because you moved here way back in _____ whereas a white/asian/latino kid moving to PLG in 2014 is somehow an unwelcome interloper. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-47204714400507778202014-02-27T17:39:17.939-05:002014-02-27T17:39:17.939-05:00""But weren't we all the beneficiari...""But weren't we all the beneficiaries, albeit in a round-about way, of racism? We weren't afraid, like some of our compatriots, to live in a black neighborhood..."<br /><br />I love thinking back on the Slope/WTerrace–based RE broker who, when we told her we'd changed our minds and were now going to look exclusively in PLG said (with true horror in her voice): "You aren't going to live OVER THERE, are you? I mean, you know, the SCHOOLS..."<br /><br />Postscript: A few years ago we got one of those letters from her agency, you know the ones— "If you're thinking of putting your house on the market, we are the very best at blah, blah, blah..."<br />Yeah. Don't hold your breath, lady.diakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01160226342863738763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-7121435469803555052014-02-27T17:11:54.627-05:002014-02-27T17:11:54.627-05:00Brent: Thanks for the reality check. Of course, on...Brent: Thanks for the reality check. Of course, on a human level, most of what happens is not biased or confrontational. It's essentially organic and consensual, much of the time.<br /><br />But the bigger questions come up when you talk about planning and development, and the individual and collective acts of real estate interests and landlords - even schools (as you and I well know!)<br /><br />Why is it, exactly, that the real estate rags call a neighborhood like Lefferts "emerging?" Emerging from what, into what, exactly? Isn't that from blackness to whiteness? And look closely at how new developments are priced, how they're marketed, and what amenities are described as attractive. And how is it, exactly, that the same house, less than a mile or two away, can cost 1/3 as much? Better plumbing? Fewer bistros?<br /><br />The Snob's story is much like mine...priced out here, priced out there. But weren't we all the beneficiaries, albeit in a round-about way, of racism? We weren't afraid, like some of our compatriots, to live in a black neighborhood. In fact, we were thrilled to get away from the pack and celebrate the true experiment of NYC. I'm not claiming that you or I or anyone I know specifically kicked someone out. Though in our case, the slumlord who owned our house was running it as a boarding house, so when the house was sold, all those SRO apartments (illegal as they were) and their inhabitants disappeared. The house was delivered "vacant," but only because the landlord was ready to cash out.<br /><br />The conversation, which I'm not at all tired of except for the polemics, needs to happen, in my view, because we should be aware of what is and isn't okay in the land grab. I suppose you could say my plea is a little to little too late...<br /><br />Let me give one other example. A friend recently got in a fender bender. He's sure it was his fault. When the cops got there, they decided to call it no-fault, definitely benefiting my friend in the insurance realm. The cop said, as they were leaving, "you know those car service guys are terrible drivers." <br /><br />What an unambiguous example of how the dice are loaded.<br /><br /><br />Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-32221204606092058512014-02-27T09:44:37.196-05:002014-02-27T09:44:37.196-05:00I hesitate to respond but this topic is dominating...I hesitate to respond but this topic is dominating not only the Q’s blog but the wider media as well in so many stories. I would hope that everyone posting and reading this understands that the sweeping generalizations do not apply in most cases. My wife and I moved to PLG because we wanted to be apart of a community and raise our children in Brooklyn close to the park and all the other conveniences and quirks of this neighborhood. We have been welcomed by our neighbors and enjoy being apart of a vibrant, diverse community. Now to pull the curtain back: we are white and both work hard, but by NO means could we afford a house in any other neighborhood near the park. We were lucky enough to find our house. I am positive the retiring couple was very happy to sell to us, and enjoy the return on their investment. I know this because they told us at closing as they prepared for their return to Atlanta, and the lower cost-of-living it would bring. We spend a lot of our time, energy and money improving our house but also engaging with others. The simple reality is that NYC and Brooklyn are changing; families today want to live in urban areas. The hipster-generation is a hyper connected generation that wants to live close to the action and energy of a city. You are seeing this not only in NYC but across the country. Suburbs are not the panacea that my parent’s generation deemed necessary to raise a family. I welcome the discussion, but implore everyone to avoid the undertones of racism and to realize everyone is trying to make it in this extremely expensive city. Maybe it’s the long cold, snowy winter that has so many commenting and writing on the subject. The good news is spring is just around the corner, and that means I’ll see more of my neighbors returning home from work as I sit on my stoop watching my children race up and down the street. Brent O'Connorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05146616693470383989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-17197796153649966442014-02-27T09:00:36.636-05:002014-02-27T09:00:36.636-05:00NewVChristiana...
White people move by choice?
I a...NewVChristiana...<br />White people move by choice?<br />I am white and was priced out of the East Village and moved to Williamsburg where I was again priced out. I now live in Prospect Lefferts. I did not move from the LES or Williamsburg by choice but by necessity. Seems to me that there is over generalization and racism rearing it's ugly head on all sides.SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06160827446478923952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-82084981597207222332014-02-26T19:43:15.558-05:002014-02-26T19:43:15.558-05:00So, a person of color will never expect to get ahe...So, a person of color will never expect to get ahead or have success. Color and money go hand in hand so why even try. Accept your lot and continue to be at the mercy of the landholders and the government. Self defeatism at it's best. Clarkson is right when he speaks about activism. You want to label the Jewish community as a cult, fine. But they are and have been organized for years and have built a place for themselves. Govanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03966912169458534380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-37726748357239308602014-02-26T17:22:22.244-05:002014-02-26T17:22:22.244-05:00I appreciate your perspective, Clarkson FlatBed. T...I appreciate your perspective, Clarkson FlatBed. The unspoken reality of gentrification is anti-black racism. We argue that the motivations are purely financial, or that it's not only white people who take over neighborhoods, but the bottom-line is that black folks are the targets of displacement. Less black folks equals more desirable in this city, and that's the way it is.<br /><br />We can't talk about the ethnic/cultural makeup of neighborhoods changing over time without talking about *why* those changes are taking place. And the (admittedly over-simplified) reasons: white folks move by choice, brown folks move by necessity. White flight happened because white people did not want black people to be a part of their neighborhoods, and gentrification is happening for the same reason. <br /><br />Money just happens to be a convenient excuse, but money and color go hand-in-hand, arm-in-arm, cheek-to-cheek.NewChristinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13322814719111452808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-19380811793818566432014-02-26T16:02:34.996-05:002014-02-26T16:02:34.996-05:00Spike had been looking to collaborate with me on a...Spike had been looking to collaborate with me on a project for some time. THIS is why I've been resisting!Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-66412371064524882412014-02-26T14:56:16.138-05:002014-02-26T14:56:16.138-05:00Agreed, Snob. Nothing undermines the intellectual ...Agreed, Snob. Nothing undermines the intellectual basis for an argument like the repeated use of "motherf***ing". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-31307169044605708432014-02-26T13:33:38.815-05:002014-02-26T13:33:38.815-05:00Seems like Spike Lee read your post from the Upper...Seems like Spike Lee read your post from the Upper East Side. But he really botched the argument. <br /><br />http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/spike-lee-blasts-brooklyn-gentrifiers-article-1.1701847The Snobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08651104992931398542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-87337835727818370202014-02-25T12:20:19.299-05:002014-02-25T12:20:19.299-05:00Nope. I don't want people to live like I want ...Nope. I don't want people to live like I want them to. I want them to be able to express their wishes, and if my view comes up more popular, so be it. You, on the other hand, prefer an autocratic money-down philosophy. Fine. Bring it to the ballot box. But let the people have a say. No one holds developers accountable. It's time we do.Clarkson FlatBedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13463744536115119388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1541468051247516447.post-14498810945142165402014-02-25T10:53:32.601-05:002014-02-25T10:53:32.601-05:00clarkson writes:
I see no precedent in any of exa...clarkson writes: <i><br />I see no precedent in any of examples you cite.</i><br /><br />If you want to discuss which groups were displaced, then look at who got booted when the housing projects were built. <br /><br />The houses and streets of the Williamsburg setting for A Tree Grows in Brooklyn were replaced by several large housing projects. Good-by to the Irish, the Germans and the Jews who'd occupied those houses for a few generations.<br /><br />That's the story for every site in Brooklyn where housing projects were built. Wholesale destruction of neighborhoods under the guise of some bizarre sense of fairness.<br /><br />What has project housing yielded? A stream of rappers and an endless amount of material for them to interpret. Not to mention soaring illegitimacy, fatherlessness, substance abuse, violence and low academic achievement, but, you know, that's how it goes, I guess.<br /><br />You seem to have a blind spot for widespread slum clearance that Title I gave to the city, and how replacing some of those run-down neighborhoods with housing projects led to outrageous problems. <br /><br />Yet you see "gentrification" as the big threat to city life, to Brooklyn. <br /><br />no_slappzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207475509053402475noreply@blogger.com