From deep in the deeply detailed thread on the new Wholesome Market (see below post) came a reminder that some in the neighborhood don't know about the sandwich treasure on New York Avenue - Mama Louisas. Which means you might also not know about Kings County Nurseries next door, or the truly unique "Disc Mart/Blackmind" Boutique across the street. Mama's is (amazingly)over 100 years old, dating back well back into the days when the area was called Pigtown) and makes outstanding heroes, so if Wholesome ain't cold-cutting it for you, there's another EGGScellent option.
As to the griping about Wholesome, I'm wondering a) exactly what people were expecting and b) whether the gripers have plans to make their list of specialty item needs known to the amiable shopkeeps. As to the lack of organic produce, that's definitely a head-scratcher. Seems a no-brainer, but what they do have (non-organic) looks fairly decent to me, though slim-pickins'. I for one ain't given up my Food Coop membership over it. But dang people have gotten picky bout their delis! For your fresh bread, is it so hard to walk three doors down to ToTT? I thought that was part of the Urban Fantasy, that shop-to-shop bourgie boulangerie thang. By-the-by, ToTT let Tugboat keep the bagel market. I thought that was kinda magnanimous actually...
48 comments:
Whatevs, I don't think the Wholesome Market owners are going to care if a few people are griping. They're doing big business. Big lines of people yesterday and today and I saw all types, ages, races in there. Mama Louisa's is great!!! I would go there so much more often but it's just enough of a hike to not serve as a regular lunch spot. They do catering too, everyone should know, and cakes. So use them for your next party.
I just found out that Wholesome Gourmet doesn't carry gluten free strawberry shortcake with chocolate swirls. UGH! I'm SOOOO not liking this market! Shame on you.
Mama Louisa's is wonderful! And the proof is that all the cops from the 71st Precinct and the people from the DoS garage on Rutland eat there - so you're always going to wait a while for your sandwich, but it's worth it (albeit a bit far east for those closer to Flatbush Ave.)
It's clear given all the gripes about WM that the owners have no feel for the buyer who is looking for organic
fresh produce, artisanal cheeses, charcuterie, local
roasted coffees, i.e. the Union Market type offerings
that we actually have to trek to UM to purchase.
Judging by all the pre opening banter I heard, many
people had high hopes that we would be getting a
Union Market version and the reality is very disappointing.
Even though WGM was a big letdown (the main thing I'd axe them to carry is prosciutto, but turkey prosciutto doesn't cut it) I have to acknowledge it looks good from the street & thus is a good calling card for the nabe. It may eventually lead to less trash, crime, wrong way driving down my street & sidewalk by delivery mopeds, noisy parties, & other nuisances.
I am enjoying the "neighborhood treasure" thread. Anyone want to big up Alan's Bakery, vegetarian Chinese at Zen, or the Nostrand donut shop?
I think the name has something to do with a lot these complaints. People want it to be something that it's not
Wholesome = Wholefoods.
BTW, it's not hard to work the charcuterie and cheese into the standard Brooklyn grocery. Our old Met on Washington Ave managed to carry all kinds of yuppie food long before the surrounding neighborhood would have suggested it. There's probably a wholesaler that has all that kind of stuff on speed dial.
You are right about the one stop wholesaler, Snob.
They're called Dairyland and they are in the Hunts Point
Market.
Ah yes, Mama Louisa's and Alan's Bakery! Get there early for both, they're very popular.
PS: the market on the corner of Caton and Flatbush has the best avocados.
Alan's currant rolls are responsible for about 5 of my extra pounds (the others are from various sources)
I've shopped at Mama Louisa's for almost 20 years, but stopped recently when they were graded an C by the Department of Health. Only one store I've been in that had a B and I ignored it, but C? No way.
Love Frank and Louisa though =(
Someone wrote in that there's no ham at Wholesome since it's halal... But there's bacon. Organic and Oscar Meyer! So clearly not halal.
I think a lot of people are disappointed because the name and signage implied that it was going to be gourmet ala Union Market and not Park Slope style bodega, which is essentially what it is. Nonetheless, it's conveniently located next to subway and park, and is aesthetically pleasing and not-smelly!
Mama Louisas sounds great, but a total hike fo just a sandwich for people who live closer to Flatbush.
Yeah, that who sounded that nonsense about halal anyway? these are the kinds of assumptions that drive me nuts...like someone couldn't just ask at the counter?
Yep, regarding Mama L's. It's a hike if you're a) on foot, not a bike or a car and b) if you live closer to Flatbush. But it's not if a) you have a bike or a car or b) you live closer to Mama Louisas than say, I dunno, the next best great hero shop (where is that exactly?). Thus, the post.
A note of caution for those heading to Mama Louisa's for the first time: when you enter, expect to think, "This place? Really?" The um, decor, of hand-scribbled signs and haphazard displays of candy, cleaning products, breakfast cereals, and keychains will not inspire confidence in the food. I advise you close your eyes and order the brisket. Or the chicken parmigiana. Or the fresh turkey (which is made with actual turkey, not a pressed turkey loaf). Or the Italian combo. Or... anything.
And the staff's vocalizing can sometimes be limited to "Who's next?" and "Whaddayawant?" Do not be intimidated; step up and order your favorite!
Yeah, I agree it's a bit of a hike (full disclosure: I have a car) but now that the weather's nice, treat yourself.
Mama Louisa's delivers too. Huge difference between Wholesome & Mama's. Mama Louisa's is a guilty pleasure. Wholesome is a fancy market (for PLG) with a nice deli selection.
Another ordering tip, ask Frank or Louisa, "whats good". If I had never asked this I would not know that they make a meatloaf sandwich with onion gravy that is unbelievable. This place is truly a neighborhood institution, check Franks banter with the all the kids in the neighborhood who you can tell have known Frank since the day they were born.
I didn't use the word halal because it implies a whole set of laws i don't know much about, but i did ask for prosciutto at the WGM deli counter & was told "no pork." i noticed bacon in the refrigerated section, but what i saw was turkey bacon.
So Dan, you DID ask! Good for you. There you have it. No pork, at least behind the counter, where for sure we know they don't want the pork mussing up the machinery. Turkey prosciutto then?
Last night the Mrs. pointed out that for most of these specialty items you probably don't want to go to a general type deli like Wholesome anyway. You want to go to a place that specializes, like Larder, Green Grape Provisions, Union Market etc. It's just not that kind of place, and maybe even wouldn't attract the numbers to stay in biz, who knows? Perhaps Union Market could attract the numbers now, and will see Wholesome do good biz, and come on over. Time will tell.
Meanwhile, unless you're looking for ham sorbet, I think you'll be able to ask for special items that can be ordered from wholesalers and they'll give it a shot.
Q, what do you think are the chances of getting Brooklyn Larder to open up another branch storefront further south on Flatbush, specifically at the corner of Midwood Street and Flatbush? That was the space Cafe Pomidor was supposedly moving into. What happened to them?
Either way maybe we could incentivize Larder to move here if the neighborhood banded together and fronted all of the construction fit-out costs.
Well, I'm no capitalist. Actually, I think we pretty much all are by living and breathing in America. Let's put it this way, I'm no businessman. But as much as I agree that it would be a tremendous idea for Larder to come down here (I personally have no need for most of what they sell, though I might window shop), the idea of helping them open their shoppe is a terrible one, in my opinion.
Back in the early days of the Cortelyou makeover, the socialist coffee shop Vox Pop was the pride of their 'hood, much as K-Dog was to Lincoln Road back in the mid-aughts. When Vox Pop closed (actually its owner went cuckoo with the 9/11 "truther" movement Upstate) a bunch of neighborhood people tried to save it by collectively investing. It died anyway and people lost their dough.
The fact is, individuals committed to their businesses are the best people to invest in their businesses. The process is already well underway here, and I think letting it happen is the best way to let it happen. There is no reason to rush it along and lose your or my money in the process. Better that we should all prop up local mom and pops that have already showed great love and care for the neighborhood through the years, and patiently wait for the amenities that you so desire, and maybe even push the locals to carry the stuff you desire in the meantime. And if you have the money for an all-you-can-eat metrocard, why not just hop on the train and go to Larder in the meantime? It's really not that far away. Even the cost of bus or subway ride is still a heck of a lot cheaper than the investment in the build-out of a space on Flatbush.
That's just my opinion. Others might disagree of course.
Another plus to WGM is despite someone calling me a neighborhood downer I got the Q to single me out for praise twice on his blog, though mostly I am just posting this to see if my new blogger id photo appears next to my post.
awesome, it worked!
The reason I am happy about WM and not griping is because I recognized that we first needed a decent grocery market to serve all, do it well and with pride, and include nicer items along with basic items. Park Slope didn't get fancy cheese shops or Union Market first before any kind of market. Union Market didn't open in the early 90s when Park Slope had just improving its amenities. Union Market opened within the last 7-8 years. Pretty recently, relatively speaking. Face the reality, PLG is/was pretty far behind. This is a start. It's a nice store with a nice storefront on a very visible corner. Its success will encourage other market owners to venture here. Somebody has to be first and this totally makes sense as the first kind of nicer market to open here. It IS a diverse neighborhood economically and I don't just mean Caribbean vs others or whatever, I'm talking about the 20-something hipster renters who are doing internships or entry level jobs and paying college loans.
Y'all know where the owners of Union Market live, right?
I refuse to patronize Brooklyn Larder based on the mammoth pretentiousness of its name.
Let's move on to something more interesting:
Did you know that famed Genovese family crime boss Tommy Eboli was gunned down in front of his girlfriend's house at 388 Lefferts between Nostrand and New York Ave at 1 a.m. on July 16 1972? Classic mafia assassination - right here in PLG!
Turk: And how apropos to note it on the occasion of James Gandolfini's death. R.I.P. What an extraordinary gift to the television that man was. And I don't even watch TV, but for gluttonous binge-renters, that show was a godsend. Truly a one-of-a-kind talent.
Can't even write about a neighborhood hero shop without it turning into mobsters and the Sopranos...
....and really, Turk, just where do you keep YOUR lard?
I once walked in to Louisa's a few years back and watched as a patron queried Frank as to the availability of roast beef. Without a word, he vanished into the the deli's mysterious inner sanctum for several minutes. When he finally emerged, the laconic Italian was straining to hold a gigantic, steaming, glistening, succulent looking hunk of uncut roast beef that had just been removed from the oven. No Boar's Head here folks. The man roasts his own beef. He roasts his own beef goddamnit!
Here's another PLG historical footnote from some neighborhood sources - supernaturally smooth R&B legend Luther Vandross used to have a boyfriend who lived in one of the apartment buildings on Hawthorne Street between Bedford and Rogers back back in the 80s. The hefty crooner's long black limo would pull up to the ratty building a few times a month and his driver would outside until the visits concluded. Once the word spread, heads would pop from every apartment window whenever the incongruous stretch Lincoln cruised down Hawthorne - a Luther sighting was imminent.
Turk:
Louisa's also roasts their own turkeys and hams. (Be sure to specify you want those if you don't want sliced cold cuts.)
I haven't been to Brooklyn Larder, but a glance at their website says to me they are way (or way way way) too expensive for our neighborhood (at least for now). Who are all these people paying 8 bucks for a little jar of cutesy mustard? Not me, for certain.
Re the Genoveses and/or Luther Vandross, I got nothing.
One other thing: anyone else notice that throughout these long threads re WGM's deli and Mama Louisa's no one has brought up the demise of the Subway at Flatbush and Beekman? I guess nobody misses it. I never went in there although I think Subway is passable for a national chain food factory. (But they're no Jimmy John's. Wonder if they'll ever come to NYC...)
Brooklyn Larder? Seriously? I once bought a $10 pot of rillettes (that wouldn't have been half the price in France) as a splurge for New Year's Eve, but I'd starve to death and/or go bankrupt if I tried to eat their food on a regular basis. Plus I don't think their selection is all that great.
If you want fancy, I'd recommend Blue Apron on Union St. in Park Slope over Brooklyn Larder any day. Amazing charcuterie and super-friendly service (unlike Brooklyn Larder, which I found to be a bit full of itself).
And as Brooklyn Larder is owned by the same people who own Franny's, which just moved into its newly expanded space, so most likely they're done with expansion plans for the moment.
No Tim, where do the owners of Union Market live?
I love Mama Louisa's !! Best deli in town. And Frank is awesome!!
Why does everyone here seem to feel the need to knock anything they can't afford or deem too expensive? Brooklyn Larder is great- great charcuterie, unique sides, yummy sandwiches and nice little tiny jars of fancy mustard.... I hope to see a place like this in our midst someday. Until then , the Park Slope side of Flatbush is just 1 subway stop away.
7:57 you need to convince all your friends who patronize larder to buy $$$M homes in the Manor. Maybe then larder would consider setting up in PLG.
Anon 4:53: one of the main union market dudes lives not in park slope, not in lefferts, across from le museum. and not near a specialty store even as nice as wholesome. my point being, even the guy who started one of the places everyone name-checks has to commute to his OWN place to buy stinky cheese. well, i suppose he could sneak it home in his gym bag...actually, that might double the stink. or would they cancel each other out?
i find the whole conversation fascinating and exhausting. i just got back from the park slope food coop, riding my bike. it was a beautiful night, big june moon. the selection is awesome, and i know things have been vetted for ethicalnessity. and i rode by wholesome. looks so nice to have light and activity at that corner. i almost stopped in to try some new kind of gelato, but thought better of it, due to my expanded waitline.
good night y'all.
So no one cares that Mama Louisa's was graded a "C" by the Department of Health, huh? Oh, okay. I guess I'm making a big deal of a bad grade.
Mr CB,
All this talk flipped the craving switch in me and I had to go to Mama L's for the second time this week, this time for the Italian combo with "the works." And potato chips on the side.
If you don't mind, would you now post a piece about the importance of exercise to good health and well-being? Much obliged!
"Sinny said...
So no one cares that Mama Louisa's was graded a "C" by the Department of Health, huh? Oh, okay. I guess I'm making a big deal of a bad grade."
Nope, can't say that I care about the grades. There's a restaurant that was graded an 'A' yet right when I sat down to eat, cockroaches decided they wanted to join in my meal. Just my opinion, but those grades are pointless to me.
Just so amazing to me how these bulletproof Chinese restos always get an A. Not complaining because I eat there (or rather take out, as you really can't eat there) several times a month).
@babs: I know one Chinese store I used to go to had a B posted on their door, and in 2 days, all of a sudden had an A. Suspect stuff right there.
As someone in the restaurant business, I can tell you first hand that the letter grades don't give a clear and accurate picture of the safety of your food. Restaurants like Mama Louisa's that do things 'home style' and have probably been doing them the same way for decades are particularly good targets for the inspectors. Difara's Pizza, one of the oldest and best pizza shops in Brooklyn was closed a couple years ago by the health department and I bet they were just doing things the same way they always had. Your best bet is to trust your own instincts and observations when deciding if a restaurant is taking care with your food. I saw a restaurant with an 'A' in the window and a dead cockroach that had crawled under it and died. Guess the inspector missed that (or maybe he was paid to?)...
I was all ready to trek over for the decent eggplant parm so lacking in this neighborhood and combine it with a trip to the Nursery for new nasturtiums when i saw "CLOSED ON SUNDAYS" HOW can this BE ? AGH
Elizabeth. Really, now. With a name like Mama Louisa's, not only should you expect closed on Sundays, you might expect fish only on Fridays! This place is OOOOOLLLLLDDDDD school...like I think it may predate the Great Schism.
I made the mistake of reading the yelp reviews. It had me worked up to a fever lasagna pitch. Alas.
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