And in celebration of the new policy, I leave you with the below poster from near 50 years ago. To most of you it will mean nothing, but for some, I hope you enjoy as much as I did. By the way, Mr. Old Time Rock 'n' Roll was considered on a par with Iggy in late '60s Detroit for his "raw" live shows. In other words, you never know which way the wind's gonna blow. Against the Wind? You bet. Like a rock? Like a Rock Against the Wind? (Always bugged me that line "Like a rock...STORMING FROM THE GATE." Don't know about your rocks, but mine don't really storm from anything, usually just sit there.)
27 comments:
I wonder how many rounds Catfish Hodge has had bought for him by telling this story...
Ahh. My mom's first teaching gig was in St. Clair Shores probably around that time. Mid-60s. She graduated from MSU in '64. Who knew they were rocking it at the local arena?
Q you're the man!
Walked by the newly renovated Kings theatre. It's beautiful. Hope we can get some good concerts in our hood.
As I wrote last year, I'm very skeptical about their business model. There are dozens of great theaters in the area. Widespread Panic and Disney princess shows aren't gonna make this place profitable. That and Diana Ross are the only shows programmed for an entire month. The City won't subsidize this place forever. The Kings will need to stake out a unique programming agenda. Random shows will not create a destination feel...the TX company running it has no business programming in NYC.
Time to make "Catfish Hodge" a great band name for a new generation. Just got back from a walk in the park, my first in a shamefully long time...have decided to take up the blog-banner again for my neglected "Prospect: A Year in the Park"...was Rip-Van-Winkled to look up and see a GIGANTIC AWFUL CONDO THING looming over the park's southeastern perimeter...was that the Thing Some Were Protesting? I see, sadly, it came to pass...anyway, glad you've kept blogging!
Yes, Q, you are right.
Getting some local legends like Sharon Jones aND the Dap Kings would be more in line with what I was thinking.
Also maybe the National and They Might be Giants.
I spoke to a musician friend who was huge with a one hit wonder in the 90s and continues to tour. I was surprised by her optimism about King's. She thinks that it will be very successful... I guess we'll see.
That's it, Alex! The home of the "one-hit wonders!" Lisa Loeb. Jesus Jones. Swing Out Sister. Dexy's Midnight Runners, Norman Greenbaum, Lipps Inc., Hot Butter, and my two personal favorites: Q with "Dancin' Man" in 1977, and Timmy Thomas, a soul singer who hit with "Why Can't We Live Together" from 1972.
Come to think of it "Why Can't We Live Together" is a pretty good theme song for THIS Timmy Thomas as well. Maybe we'd make a good double-bill?
"The City won't subsidize this place forever."
While it's true the city and the borough kicked in a lot of money to get this project going and to get it built, what is this subsidy you speak of? Maybe there's a tax break for a fixed number of years, but that's hardly unusual for a project of this size. Hardly the boondoggle you imply... or do you know something I don't?
And while its true that there are "dozens of great theaters in the area" almost none have the capacity and the star-of-the-art tech facilities of the new Kings.
Unlike you, I think the Kings is going to be enormously successful. If I ran the Beacon Theatre I'd be worried. The Kings will do to the Beacon what Barclays Center is doing to Madison Square Garden.
Ha! The bet is on, Diak. Let's check in January 2016. I believe you'll owe me a Jamaican Beef Patty.
And how, pray tell, do you expect them to program? BAM has to raise more than half its money in donations. Barclays has a major sports franchise bringing in the numbers. You may have an unusually upbeat projection on what kinds of music can draw 3,000, and then would CHOOSE to do the show in Flatbush.
The key is programming. If you throw a random this and random that at people, you won't define an identity. And without one, you can't consistently draw.
Let's put it this way...the Diana Ross show is a one-off and super unique. Finding 10-15 Diana Ross shows a month...that's tough work. Especially with big promoters like Live Nation and Bowery bidding against you.
Your point about the number of acts that will draw 3,000+ is well taken (in fact the Beacon has a hair over 2,800 so the Kings will have them beat by several hundred). So I took a look at the Beacon's website and over the next few months they have booked megastars such as: Umphrey's McGee, The Tragically Hip, Spandau Ballet, The Midtown Men, The Idan Raichel Project, Third Day, plus an unnamed 70s soul revue, a doo-wop 'extravaganza,' and a Pink Floyd cover band. (Apologies to devoted fans of the above but I for one was surprised to see them playing a place the size of the Beacon.)
So maybe it isn't that hard to sell 3,000 tickets nowadays...
As far as choosing to play in Brooklyn, maybe you haven't heard but rumor is that Brooklyn is now a hip place to hang out! (Even to live in!) But in truth, the acts will play where they get the best deal so it will be up to the management to sell it that way. I agree that the sparse bookings so far is disappointing but there's way too much riding on this for that to continue for long. (Unless there's that mystery subsidy you mentioned...)
I accept your wager re the patty. In fact. if you like, I'll up it to: loser takes the winner to a show at the Kings!
Those shows won't sell out. Won't even come close, I suspect.
Yes I'll gladly allow you to buy me a ticket to The Tragically Hip when they come back into town. I kid you not, my band played a show with them many years back. Many, many, many years back. They sucked then, but who knows, maybe they've been practicing?
That list of shows proves, rather than disproves my point though. Imagine having to be the guy bidding against the Beacon for those sorry acts?
I WANT to be proven wrong. I WANT the Kings to be a "beacon" to Flatbush. Alls I'm saying is it takes more than some festive renovations to make a go of it.
Viva la Commentaria!
Thanks for all that you do Mr. Q. Your blog is quick, witty, and bright, evenhanded and full of useful information. It's been my bible for the 5 years I've lived in the nabe.
-Parkside Court Jester
They won't only have concerts at the Kings Theater. They talked about a lot of kinds of programming as I recall. There will be dance performances, comedy shows, plays, cinema events, and big musicals will go from Broadway to Brooklyn. Look at the Fox Theater in Atlanta, it's been going strong for the last 40 years since its own restoration.
Yes of course. I know they won't have just concerts. But I must ask you how many dance performances outside of ABT or the Nutcracker are going to fill that many seats? Forget theater...you need a major, major show to put 3,000 in the seats more than one night. And a single night for theater isn't cost effective.
From Broadway to Brooklyn? You're not serious. Broadway houses are significantly smaller than the Kings so they can fill the seats night after night after night after night, getting into a routine of making money.
Comedy. Yes. But now you're really competing - this town is big for comedy, but almost any joint in Manhattan can outbid you and make a profit.
And contrasting to other cities isn't relevant. Atlanta is no NYC, and we've got a zillion swank theaters, from the Apollo to Radio City. Even the Apollo struggles to pay its bills, and it has to raise tons of money to survive.
And so, like I said, I hope to be proven wrong. But I've been swimming around this biz a long time, and I'm telling you, it's a tough space to be in.
Believe it or not, I think movies are probably the best bet. Just two shows a night of the biggest Hollywood blockbusters. Lowish (Loewish) overhead. Getting back to basics...Occasional seasonal faves, cult faves with the actors present. etc etc
Mr. CF, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the larger venues, aren't they generally a space for hire? The touring company pays a rental fee and maybe a small gate percentage? The hall doesn't really care if the show sells out, right? (Well maybe they make more on snacks and drinks with a bigger crowd.) The promoter is taking the biggest risk not the venue.
We'll see. You are certainly correct that they have to establish themselves as a destination and a couple of shows a month aren't going to do that. I'm hopeful they'll pull it off. But I promise you, if I win our bet, we aren't going to see The Tragically Hip (or any Disney princess pageant). If you win and those type of shows are our only options (or worse, the place is already padlocked!), I'll take you to the Beacon or Apollo or wherever.
Good luck, sir. (And either way, we'll get the patties.)
You are correct sir. Renting out is basically what every venue does, it's just a matter of how you define "renting out." Sometimes the promoter and venue share the risk and reward. Sometime the venue plays promoter. BUT, it's a slim margin game and you have to be really good at competing and offering a better "product" to the artist/promoter.
It's like any business. But just as some great restaurants fold, so do some mediocre ones thrive. It's gonna be a job though, not a cakewalk.
Actually, my memory kicked up something when I wrote cakewalk. If you don't know its origins look it up, and you'll see why I probably won't use the term again. History is C-R-A-Z-Y!
Q,
We need you to use your considerable power and influence in the community to get the National to play Kings.
I will treat you to a beef patty as well!
Re: the Kings Theater. I’ve been watching and waiting for this opening for a while now. I’m relatively new to the area (a crown heights transplant, and I’ll admit, it was a draw for me. (Not to belabor my point, but a beautiful theater palace on my old corner of Bedford and Lincoln Place was just demolished to be replaced my more overpriced apartments, ugh.) I love old architecture and I love the romance of old forgotten Brooklyn. It’s a beautiful thing they are doing and I’d rather encourage the effort than talk crap. As far as I've been paying attention, the theater announced several "soft" openings before the show schedule fills out, this would explain the lone Diana Ross concert. But also, lest we forget, Neil Diamond just played a surprise sold out show up the block at his old high school, Erasmus. His first ever performance in Brooklyn(?!) Brooklyn used to be a place for people to escape from and never look back (sorry Sly) and now it's a place that people want to come back to. I believe the renovation cost upwards of 100,000,000 dollars, half of which provided by the city. That's a lot of money for Marty Markowitz to relive his first kiss. I guess what I’m saying is, you don't just toss that much money around without a solid business plan (and i'm not talking about just the theater). Not that I’m saying they definitely have one, but I’d be surprised. Barclays can go to hell. I’ve been there exactly once to see Black Sabbath last year. I’ve never been to see a live sports game ever in my whole entire life and I never plan to. So who knows, maybe there’s more people out there like me. …Iggy, Seger, Diamond. Triple Bill. I’m just saying. Catfish Hodge can come too. Beef Patties are on me!
I love optimism. And with somebody keeping their eye on the ball, they can figure it out. Hiring a company from outside NYC though makes me think they couldn't find any takers right here!
I don't think they have a business plan. And just because they spent tens of millions of dollars - yours and mine - doesn't mean they have to follow through. The City is full of pork projects that led nowhere.
Alls I'm saying is...the theater died once, it could die again, without great management and solid booking. I know it SOUNDS like a no-brainer. But this place will have a full-time staff to support, massive maintenance bills, and just like Barclays or any venue, a massive overhead to cover every single show. The sweet spot - where price paid plus attendance - makes everyone some money, is really hard to hit. That's why successful promoters run a number of venues of different sizes. Think Bowery presents, where they can usher you up or down the draw ladder as your career bumps or busts. Whether you can sell 100 or 3000 tickets, they find the right venue to make money.
As for The National, they live in Flatbush. You should definitely count on them playing a few nights here. But even they don't play cheap, so it's not necessarily a huge money-maker. I'll bet the Diana Ross show cost way more than they can make back. If she has a good agent, she could hold out for a massive guarantee.
"Hiring a company from outside NYC though makes me think they couldn't find any takers right here!"
The city didn't put this building project together, then look for a management team and only find one in Houston, TX. The Texas-based ACE Theatrical Group has been doing these redevelopment-restoration-management arrangements all over the country. If their website is to be believed they have more than 20 such theaters throughout North America (plus a dozen more they manage but didn't restore or rebuild). Sounds like there has to be a business plan somewhere in their back offices, no? The website also says they have a New York office.
And while we all know that a corporate website can contain a fair amount of self-serving PR, the ACE website has several encouraging references to promoting educational outreach, supporting local arts organizations, hiring diversity, etc.
http://www.acetheatricalgroup.com
Diak: Look closer. They manage three theaters. Check out their bookings. One in San Antonio, two in New Orleans. I think they and the subcontractors have done an amazing job of restoration. That's hardly the point of the lively dialogue we're having, though.
Although it WOULD be hilarious if they started booking touring companies of Broadway plays and NY institutions like Stomp and Blue Man Group. Now that's hipster reverse-cool for you!
Okay, I see the discrepancy between the "credits" they list on their Profile page (20+ developments plus more managements) and the "projects" on their Theatres page (seems like 4 plus 2 in progress, including the Kings). But in any case, it's clear this is hardly an amateur operation. The job done on the restoration alone should inspire confidence.
I'm sure you know that there's no way a touring company would be allowed to compete with an NYC production, Broadway or Off-Broadway. In general the same producers run both the NYC and tour shows and even when they aren't, the touring operation would be contractually obligated to stay a prescribed distance from NYC. But it's certainly plausible that the touring company of a show that's long-since-closed in New York might play a week or so at the Kings...
And while I know you wouldn't want to go to work for a company you think is bound to fail, according to their website, the Kings has an opening for Director of Corporate Sales... ;)
Those are called non-compete clauses and yeah you couldn't do it.
I don't they're bound to fail at all. I think they're out of their league, and that they will bow out at some point and the public will be asked to pick up the bills for awhile til they figure how to run it as a non-profit.
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