(for those for whom the Parkside Q is their hometrain)
News and Nonsense from the Brooklyn neighborhood of Lefferts and environs, or more specifically a neighborhood once known as Melrose Park. Sometimes called Lefferts Gardens. Or Prospect-Lefferts Gardens. Or PLG. Or North Flatbush. Or Caledonia (west of Ocean). Or West Pigtown. Across From Park Slope. Under Crown Heights. Near Drummer's Grove. The Side of the Park With the McDonalds. Jackie Robinson Town. Home of Lefferts Manor. West Wingate. Near Kings County Hospital. Or if you're coming from the airport in taxi, maybe just Flatbush is best.
Saturday, August 18, 2012
Au revoir, Papa & Sons
photo courtesy of Across the Park, circa 2006
Just in from the confirmed rumor mill, Papa & Sons, the venerable maxi-bodega at the NW corner of Flatbush and Lincoln Road, will close at the end of the month. To be replaced by...a bank. Details at 11, or, more likely, in the comments below. Anyone know which flavor of multi-national ATM flim-flammers we should expect?
26 comments:
Anonymous
said...
A bank! Good, it's been one of the things missing in the neighborhood. Jenny
OJ Market is way better and has been trying harder anyway. The owner is great. She's always behind the register, not some disgruntled teens like at Papas. OJ is on Flatbush bet Maple and Midwood.
Betting Man: I wouldn't touch your bet with a 10 foot Ackee. The PLAN is for a bank. Even other "reported" activity on Lincoln is still preliminary. The Q got wind just the other day of potential trouble at another location on the block, but I'm sworn to secrecy on that one. P&S is done for, however.
However, the bank idea is not so far-fetched. The giant HSBC space on Flatbush at Caton closed as part of a larger industry trend towards fewer and smaller branches. If you haven't noticed, tiny branches are popping up these days with no more than some ATM's, a customer service agent and a couple of tellers. I was in one not long ago in Billyburg that was about the size of Papas. Wouldn't it be great if bodegas and banks merged? "Would you like a bagel, some gum and a scratch-off with that withdrawal?"
I'll let y'all know what I find out from the landlord herself. I'm due to give her another ring I suppose.
If you haven't noticed, we don't have a lot of bank branches in our neighborhood. Add in the landlord's special "way of doing things" and that makes her bringing us a financial institution into the community about as likely as there being a loch ness monster in Prospect Park lake.
Thus far we're heading more in the direction of my previous prediction which is that the landlord is going to push out her tenants and end up with a bunch of empty storefronts and rotating short-term tenants.
There already IS a Chase bank on Nostrand and Empire. And a Chase bank isn't a sign of an upturn. They are the only bank with branches in the more economically diverse neighborhoods in Brooklyn. Which is to their credit but still, a TD Bank would be more a sign of real econ investment and optimism in PLG.
I think there's an over-emphasis on Lincoln Rd. as the neighborhood's economic engine. Flatbush is actually starting to grow, despite really horrible landlords who have little to no interest in negotiating with new tenants. Play Kids, the Indian restaurants, B'Fruitee - all great establishments and I am very happy to see them in the 'hood.
P&S, I have to say, is gross and I am not sorry to see it go. Many times I went into the store at night to find the refrigerators totally OFF in what I can only guess was an attempt to save $$ on electricity. I stopped buying dairy there long ago. Don't even mention the rancid meat section.
Now, as far as the landlord goes, I have said this before and I will say it again: She is the only landlord in the neighborhood putting an effort into seeing the neighborhood improve. She's trying to get tenants that will make the value of her property increase by being clean and prosperous. She might be tough to work with, but she's a lot less tough than than landlords who refuse to talk to prospective tenants (like the owners of the former Mike's International).
Alex, Meaning no disrespect, but Lincoln Road is not now and has never been the "economic engine" of the neighborhood. However, in recent years, Lincoln Road has been serving as a consumer base for newer, "minority" interests in what's been a working class/low income, predominantly Caribbean neighborhood for the past 40 years or so. I suspect some of the reasons why Lincoln Road has emerged as that new consumer base has something to do with location as well as being a place where newcomers are able to make a big splash in a small pond. Thus far, the entreprenuerial alternatives have involved the risk of getting lost in the sea of the area's major business corridors, i.e. Flatbush and Nostrand. The dominance of beauty shops, Caribbean restaurants and bodegas and discount stores on those strips notwithstanding, it's precisely these types of enterprises which have heretofore been serving as the "economic engine" of PLG's majority population.
Now, no doubt, the resident demographics of PLG are changing and, along with it, the business demographics are slowly changing as well. As such, Flatbush Avenue is not "starting to grow" so much as it starting to diversify. Great! Just a subtle nuance in analysis and POV, but I think a most important one.
Alex, I see absolutely zero evidence for your claim that "she is the only landlord in the neighborhood putting an effort into seeing the neighborhood improve."
Name one thing she has done to improve the neighborhood.
Besides her supposed intentions, wishes, desires and delusions, she has not done anything except try to make more money. Which is completely her right to do.
When these supposed amazing new tenants move in, then perhaps she might deserve some credit. But right now all I see is an empty storefront where K-Dog used to be and another empty storefront on the horizon for Papa's.
Cleanliness is not a word I would use in association with the landlord that owns that stretch of Lincoln Road (or the tenants that inhabit it). It's always surprising to see people eating at the sidewalk tables at LPT several feet away from mounds of trash piled against the trees.
The owner of LPT was unable to negotiate with the owner of the former Mike's space- he wanted to open another restaurant there at some point, as did the Farmer's Diner or whatever that place was. the owner refused to give on anything.
LPT was successful on Lincoln Rd, indicating the the landlord DOES want to see new, successful businesses as tenants. The owner of the former Mike's is content to have a vacant write-off, which has a negative effect on the neighborhood. Thus, I think that the owner of the Lincoln Rd property is poised to do more good for the neighborhood than the other landlord I've singled out.
"Name one thing she has done to improve the neighborhood."
Leasing to Kdog and Enduro/LPT, to name two. I don't think people realize how difficult it can be to secure space at a reasonable rate in our hood. It seems like it would be cheap, but it's often more expensive than in places like Park Slope.
Alex she is trying to push out LPT just the same as she is doing to Papa's and she did to K-Dog.
I agree renting to K-Dog and Enduro/LPT were good things but sadly somewhere along the way she has lost it.
We'd be lucky to get a bank but that ain't gonna happen. Either one of two things is going to happen...
Either she is going to rent Papa's to a fast food franchise or cell phone provider or something similarly awful... or she is going to continue in her Quixote-like quest to find tenants that fulfill her impossible demands. And that's just going to lead to tenants going in-and-out.
Well, maybe I'm wrong. I've lived in the neighborhood for a long time, and she was a hero when she accepted KDog and Enduro as tenants. I hope that she's not taking the block down the wrong path.
I don't know why everyone is all excited about a bank...a bank is pretty much a pointless waste of space, unless it's the bank that you bank with. I realize that the area has a shortage of banks, but who really goes to the bank that often these days anyway? I think a restaurant or market/store would be a much better contribution to that corner.
Alex, you're right, she *was* a hero but then she kicked kdog to the curb and replaced it with another shop that clearly wasn't as good because she liked them better. Now we have neither...
K-Dog was not "kicked" anywhere; the owner refused to agree to new lease terms (happens all the time, everywhere), and Blue Roost wasn't even on the horizon for that space then. And the reason Blue Roost closed is because one of Linda's partners didn't put in the money he'd promised - and he just happens to be one of the owners of LPT, which is chronically late in paying its rent, and has repeatedly tried to negotiate rent decreases.
And there is a signed lease for the business to replace Blue Roost, and from what I know of the owners, who are neighborhood residents with a successful catering business, it will be worth the wait.
"Owner failed to agree to new lease terms" is just another way of saying "Landlord raised the rent."
Which is exactly what she did and was totally her right. And it's also the right of LPT or any other commercial tenant to try and renegotiate their lease terms. Happens all the time, everywhere, as you say Babs.
So don't defend your friend on one hand and then in the next sentence criticize someone else for the same thing.
It's also funny that you criticize someone for being paying late paying their bills. Do you know anyone else like that Babs? Rhymes with Song. Gong. Or Bong, perhaps?
Among the barbs, snarls, snarks, and anons, it is always nice to see Ceelledee bring a reasoned perspective. If ever you have time in your busy life C, it would be great to see you do a guest piece, along the lines of 'before the Q' given that you outrank him by a year or two.
Any bank in this neighborhood that engages in fair lending practices, doesn't try to maximize fees at every turn, and takes the time to advise customers on financial management is welcome. Sounds more like a credit union doesn't it? Wouldn't that be a corker? A PLG community credit union? Goodness gracious that sounds audacious.
As for all of the hullabaloo over Ms. Rong and her dastardly, or incompetent, or simply inscrutable schemes, the level of vitriol is simply unwarranted. Rong isn't the only game in town by a long shot. Rogers Avenue beckons, people. It is prime territory, not too far from the Flabenue (best new Pigtown slang ever thanks q) and chock full of locally owned commercial space. What does locally owned mean? NO BROKERS, NO RIDICULOUS RENTS, and perhaps a reasonable approach.
26 comments:
A bank! Good, it's been one of the things missing in the neighborhood.
Jenny
OJ Market is way better and has been trying harder anyway. The owner is great. She's always behind the register, not some disgruntled teens like at Papas. OJ is on Flatbush bet Maple and Midwood.
Hmmm. Let's place this into the "I'll believe it when I see it" category.
Yes, I know it has been the landlord's fantasy to have a bank but I believe this remains nothing more than her hope at this point.
I know of no bank chain that has expressed in our neighborhood and the space seems rather small for a branch.
I am willing to bet Papa's will close and remain empty for quite awhile as the landlord searches for this "bank."
Believe the Q got this one wrong...
Betting Man: I wouldn't touch your bet with a 10 foot Ackee. The PLAN is for a bank. Even other "reported" activity on Lincoln is still preliminary. The Q got wind just the other day of potential trouble at another location on the block, but I'm sworn to secrecy on that one. P&S is done for, however.
However, the bank idea is not so far-fetched. The giant HSBC space on Flatbush at Caton closed as part of a larger industry trend towards fewer and smaller branches. If you haven't noticed, tiny branches are popping up these days with no more than some ATM's, a customer service agent and a couple of tellers. I was in one not long ago in Billyburg that was about the size of Papas. Wouldn't it be great if bodegas and banks merged? "Would you like a bagel, some gum and a scratch-off with that withdrawal?"
I'll let y'all know what I find out from the landlord herself. I'm due to give her another ring I suppose.
You wrote: "To be replaced by...a bank."
I didn't see the word plan.
If you haven't noticed, we don't have a lot of bank branches in our neighborhood. Add in the landlord's special "way of doing things" and that makes her bringing us a financial institution into the community about as likely as there being a loch ness monster in Prospect Park lake.
Thus far we're heading more in the direction of my previous prediction which is that the landlord is going to push out her tenants and end up with a bunch of empty storefronts and rotating short-term tenants.
You can take that to the bank!
"potential trouble at another location on the block, but I'm sworn to secrecy on that one."
C'mon, really? Not cool.....not cool at all.
It could really only be the pharmacy, LPT, the other Papa and Sons, or Maple Street school
i hope it's Chase!!
There already IS a Chase bank on Nostrand and Empire. And a Chase bank isn't a sign of an upturn. They are the only bank with branches in the more economically diverse neighborhoods in Brooklyn. Which is to their credit but still, a TD Bank would be more a sign of real econ investment and optimism in PLG.
I think there's an over-emphasis on Lincoln Rd. as the neighborhood's economic engine. Flatbush is actually starting to grow, despite really horrible landlords who have little to no interest in negotiating with new tenants. Play Kids, the Indian restaurants, B'Fruitee - all great establishments and I am very happy to see them in the 'hood.
P&S, I have to say, is gross and I am not sorry to see it go. Many times I went into the store at night to find the refrigerators totally OFF in what I can only guess was an attempt to save $$ on electricity. I stopped buying dairy there long ago. Don't even mention the rancid meat section.
Now, as far as the landlord goes, I have said this before and I will say it again: She is the only landlord in the neighborhood putting an effort into seeing the neighborhood improve. She's trying to get tenants that will make the value of her property increase by being clean and prosperous. She might be tough to work with, but she's a lot less tough than than landlords who refuse to talk to prospective tenants (like the owners of the former Mike's International).
Alex,
Meaning no disrespect, but Lincoln Road is not now and has never been the "economic engine" of the neighborhood. However, in recent years, Lincoln Road has been serving as a consumer base for newer, "minority" interests in what's been a working class/low income, predominantly Caribbean neighborhood for the past 40 years or so. I suspect some of the reasons why Lincoln Road has emerged as that new consumer base has something to do with location as well as being a place where newcomers are able to make a big splash in a small pond. Thus far, the entreprenuerial alternatives have involved the risk of getting lost in the sea of the area's major business corridors, i.e. Flatbush and Nostrand. The dominance of beauty shops, Caribbean restaurants and bodegas and discount stores on those strips notwithstanding, it's precisely these types of enterprises which have heretofore been serving as the "economic engine" of PLG's majority population.
Now, no doubt, the resident demographics of PLG are changing and, along with it, the business demographics are slowly changing as well. As such, Flatbush Avenue is not "starting to grow" so much as it starting to diversify. Great! Just a subtle nuance in analysis and POV, but I think a most important one.
Ceelledee,
Yes, you're right - diversify is a better word than grow. I don't mean to disrespect any of the older, existing businesses on the strip.
A bank in that location would be a great thing, as far as I'm concerned. The lack of a bank on that stretch of Flatbush is truly an embarrassment.
Alex, I see absolutely zero evidence for your claim that "she is the only landlord in the neighborhood putting an effort into seeing the neighborhood improve."
Name one thing she has done to improve the neighborhood.
Besides her supposed intentions, wishes, desires and delusions, she has not done anything except try to make more money. Which is completely her right to do.
When these supposed amazing new tenants move in, then perhaps she might deserve some credit. But right now all I see is an empty storefront where K-Dog used to be and another empty storefront on the horizon for Papa's.
That is not a benefit to the neighborhood.
Cleanliness is not a word I would use in association with the landlord that owns that stretch of Lincoln Road (or the tenants that inhabit it). It's always surprising to see people eating at the sidewalk tables at LPT several feet away from mounds of trash piled against the trees.
The owner of LPT was unable to negotiate with the owner of the former Mike's space- he wanted to open another restaurant there at some point, as did the Farmer's Diner or whatever that place was. the owner refused to give on anything.
LPT was successful on Lincoln Rd, indicating the the landlord DOES want to see new, successful businesses as tenants. The owner of the former Mike's is content to have a vacant write-off, which has a negative effect on the neighborhood. Thus, I think that the owner of the Lincoln Rd property is poised to do more good for the neighborhood than the other landlord I've singled out.
Hi, to be more specific:
"Name one thing she has done to improve the neighborhood."
Leasing to Kdog and Enduro/LPT, to name two. I don't think people realize how difficult it can be to secure space at a reasonable rate in our hood. It seems like it would be cheap, but it's often more expensive than in places like Park Slope.
Um... huh?
Alex she is trying to push out LPT just the same as she is doing to Papa's and she did to K-Dog.
I agree renting to K-Dog and Enduro/LPT were good things but sadly somewhere along the way she has lost it.
We'd be lucky to get a bank but that ain't gonna happen. Either one of two things is going to happen...
Either she is going to rent Papa's to a fast food franchise or cell phone provider or something similarly awful... or she is going to continue in her Quixote-like quest to find tenants that fulfill her impossible demands. And that's just going to lead to tenants going in-and-out.
Well, maybe I'm wrong. I've lived in the neighborhood for a long time, and she was a hero when she accepted KDog and Enduro as tenants. I hope that she's not taking the block down the wrong path.
I don't know why everyone is all excited about a bank...a bank is pretty much a pointless waste of space, unless it's the bank that you bank with. I realize that the area has a shortage of banks, but who really goes to the bank that often these days anyway? I think a restaurant or market/store would be a much better contribution to that corner.
Alex, you're right, she *was* a hero but then she kicked kdog to the curb and replaced it with another shop that clearly wasn't as good because she liked them better. Now we have neither...
K-Dog was not "kicked" anywhere; the owner refused to agree to new lease terms (happens all the time, everywhere), and Blue Roost wasn't even on the horizon for that space then. And the reason Blue Roost closed is because one of Linda's partners didn't put in the money he'd promised - and he just happens to be one of the owners of LPT, which is chronically late in paying its rent, and has repeatedly tried to negotiate rent decreases.
And there is a signed lease for the business to replace Blue Roost, and from what I know of the owners, who are neighborhood residents with a successful catering business, it will be worth the wait.
"Owner failed to agree to new lease terms" is just another way of saying "Landlord raised the rent."
Which is exactly what she did and was totally her right. And it's also the right of LPT or any other commercial tenant to try and renegotiate their lease terms. Happens all the time, everywhere, as you say Babs.
So don't defend your friend on one hand and then in the next sentence criticize someone else for the same thing.
It's also funny that you criticize someone for being paying late paying their bills. Do you know anyone else like that Babs? Rhymes with Song. Gong. Or Bong, perhaps?
Ringing any bells?
Among the barbs, snarls, snarks, and anons, it is always nice to see Ceelledee bring a reasoned perspective. If ever you have time in your busy life C, it would be great to see you do a guest piece, along the lines of 'before the Q' given that you outrank him by a year or two.
Any bank in this neighborhood that engages in fair lending practices, doesn't try to maximize fees at every turn, and takes the time to advise customers on financial management is welcome. Sounds more like a credit union doesn't it? Wouldn't that be a corker? A PLG community credit union? Goodness gracious that sounds audacious.
As for all of the hullabaloo over Ms. Rong and her dastardly, or incompetent, or simply inscrutable schemes, the level of vitriol is simply unwarranted. Rong isn't the only game in town by a long shot. Rogers Avenue beckons, people. It is prime territory, not too far from the Flabenue (best new Pigtown slang ever thanks q) and chock full of locally owned commercial space. What does locally owned mean? NO BROKERS, NO RIDICULOUS RENTS, and perhaps a reasonable approach.
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